News

Looks like he got all his funding and then some. Still 12 days to go. Can't wait for the vinyl!

Wow! To think I used to record Ted Poor when he was a freshman in the Eastman Jazz Ensemble. I was a former engineer and manager of the Eastman recording studios. He was a good drummer then, I can't wait to hear what he sounds like now.

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/71952-new-album-the-tur...

I heard this a few weeks ago, and it's a great album.
The CD does indeed sound excellent, but I can't wait for the vinyl version. Good to see it get funded.

I'm in.

"Most people who don’t think twice about illegally downloading any record will likely never steal that same record on LP from a store."

A very good point! I'm in.

these guys are great.
no compression, no limiting, recorded at Sear,
I'll buy this when it comes out.

I assume Michael or someone will post here how and where to order

From the link to the Australian forum above (thanks for that):

"If the Kickstarter campaign is successful, Doug will cut the LP directly from the 88.2/24 files from the Ampex ATR 102, using the same analog chain he used before. I believe this will be the best-sounding version of this record."

So the LP won't be AAA.

Primarily due to costs, most jazz musicians can't afford to press and distribute vinyl. While almost every rock CD or digital release also includes a vinyl release, jazz musicians lag behind while their audience cares even more, considering all the classic jazz was first released on LP. I hope this is the first of many jazz releases to see a vinyl component.

Well this is confusing. I just cancelled my payment authorization. I'm not anti-digital, but this was kind of deceiving. I thought I'd be getting records cut from the original 2-track tapes from the recording session. I'm obviously not alone.

As for the odd statement "Doug will cut the LP directly from the 88.2/24 files from the Ampex ATR 102, using the same analog chain he used before." I understand it now. He stated that while they did record using an Ampex 102 machine, they also simultaneously recorded the output of that machine to digital at 88.2khz. So the digital files just have the tape machine electronics added to the signal they recorded to digital... apparently they liked the sound that way. Fine...

But to hear him wax on about how "vinyl just sounds so much better than digital" is odd. If you cut records from digital files, the "digital" of it doesn't go away. It's still there. I'd rather listen to the digital files through my own DAC, and could even run that signal through my tube buffer if I wanted too.

And apparently the 192khz files he offers are just up-converts from the 88.2khz files... another weird thing to do.
But according to his kickstarter timeline, the lacquers are to be cut on October 19th, so maybe there's time to persuade him to have Doug cut from the actual tapes (if he didn't re-record over all of them). The cost may be higher, but he's more than met his funding goal, so maybe he can afford the extra cost.
And if the track timings allow for it, maybe it could be cut over 4 sides at 45RPM, instead of 3 sides at 33RPM.

Hello everyone,

This is Jerome Sabbagh writing.

First, I want to thank Michael Fremer for mentioning my project. I am glad he likes the sound. I also want to thank all those who backed my Kickstarter and everyone here who cared to post a comment.

You should all know that this is a labor of love for me. I am a musician and music comes first but I really care about capturing the emotion of a musical performace on a recording. I did my best for this record to sound as good as possible, from a musical point of view, as well as from a sonic point of view. I am thrilled that the vinyl will become a reality and that Doug Sax will cut it.

As to whether the vinyl will be AAA: no, it will not be purely analog, as Michael pointed out in his update. I still think it will sound great though.

I apologize for the confusion. It was never my intention to deceive anyone. On the contrary, I went to great length to describe exactly how we recorded, on several audio blogs, days ago. I urge anyone interested to please take the time to read the post I wrote on audioasylum in its entirety:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/109/1092065.html

I tried to make this as clear as possible and explain why we made the choices we made. I hope this clears things up. All decisions were made with music in mind, we took a lot of time to compare different options, and we picked what sounded the best to us. I stand by the choices I made, with James Farber, Doug Sax and Jett Galindo, whose collective expertise I very much trust and who were a pleasure to work with.

I want to address a couple of points in the comment above from Superfuzz. The album was indeed recorded to analog tape on an ATR-102. The output of the tape machine was then converted to digital at 88.2/24 and the tape reused as we went, so I could afford to record to tape. The files used for mastering do not "have the tape machine electronics added to the signal [we] recorded to digital". They are a digital capture of what was recorded to tape, done at 88.2/24. The music was recorded to tape first and the files have on them the sound that was recorded to the tape itself. This makes a big difference. As I mentioned, the set of files made from the output of the ATR-102 tape machine sounded a lot better to my ears than the straight-up digital recording at 88/2/24.

The other two sets of files mentioned were completely separate. I recorded them to have options and to be able to pick whatever sounded best at mastering. The digital files that we recorded directly to digital were not used at all for the album.

Also, the 192/24 files are not upconverted digitally from the 88/2/24 files. The 88.2/24 files were mastered in analog (EQ, a bit of limiting). At that point, after EQing, the analog signal was captured at 192/24, because Doug Sax and I thought that it would be the most faithful digital capture of that signal.

As for this album, I am happy about the way it sounds on any support. I can assure everyone here that we did the best we could without having an unlimited budget. That said, I certainly do not want anyone to feel cheated and I thought I would attempt to clear things up.

I am happy to send anyone who contacts me two tracks from the record, for free, at the resolution of your choice between 192/24, 44.1/24 and 44.1/16. That way, you can make you own opinion about the sound and - more importantly - the music itself and decide if this is something you want to support.

FYI, all versions of the record (192/24, CD, Mastered for iTunes) have the same exact same EQ and level of limiting, which is very small by today’s standards. Michael Fremer listened to the 192/24 files. I am thrilled that he liked the sound as much as he did. I believe the LP will sound even better, especially with someone like Doug Sax involved.

I am happy to answer any and all questions and, as a musician and an audiophile, I am encouraged by the overwhelmingly positive response I have received in the audiophile community.

Thank you all for your support, comments and the level of interest you have shown in this endeavor.

Jerome Sabbagh
www.jeromesabbagh.com
www.facebook.com/sabbaghjerome
www.twitter.com/jeromesabbagh

Hi Superfuzz,

Thanks for responding.

About recording to tape or to digital: to me, everything has a sound. Tape has a sound, digital has a sound too (and different analog to digital converters sound very different from one another, even at high sampling rates). Everything that you go through adds something, whether it's analog or digital. It's all a matter of taste and balance, to me. I did the best I could on this project.

I am glad you still want to support the album. Your point about the lack of an option to get the 192/24 files on the Kickstarter page is well taken. I've just added such an option, for $20.

I will absolutely consider doing an all analog recording next time. I've always wanted to, and the success of the Kickstarter encourages me to find a way to do it.

I agree that $20 is a real bargain for a double LP with shipping. That was part of my point: I want to show that pressing quality vinyl at an affordable price point is possible for musicians who are not superstars, and that, as musicians, even in a niche market such as jazz, it can be part of what will enable us collectively to keep recording, and make good sounding records.

I am not sure if you are in NY, but, if you are, please feel free to say hi when we play with Ben. I hope to have more gigs with this band soon, in NY and elsewhere. Ben and I are going on tour in Europe with Gary Wang and Jeff Ballard, in a week.

Thanks for your support!

Jerome Sabbagh

... that pro audio tape was by no means inexpensive these days but also didn't know there would be a situation where an analog deck was secured and used for recording but that insufficient reels afforded to complete the project.

That Mr. Sabbagh took the time to consider an alternative compromise is interesting and thankfully we have the backstory that lends insight into the process and reasoning behind it.

There's a big leap of faith at work here for the artist. Take for example the stereo Beatles reissues from 2012. That crew made the best they thought they could make under the circumstances but reviews were sorta mixed. The monos that just came out have been met with more acclaim, and we hope purchases follow, and yet if you asked them privately the folks that made them might not believe the all-analog chain was "worth it" sonically for any increased possible sales. They took a gamble based on feedback, not necessarily what they considered prudent financial expenditure.

Without divulging too much about the production costs I'd be interested to learn the percentage increase or dollar amount a few extra reels would have cost, especially in light of potential customer confusion. Even if the sound wouldn't be "that much" more improved, sometimes from a business standpoint it literally pays to lessen the barriers of understanding so to speak when marketing for units sold.

Thanks again for being so upfront here.

For me, when buying vinyl, I want it to be all analogue.
That's why I buy it. If it's new and digital, I'll generally get an SACD or the digital download. At whatever resolution it comes in.
I have nothing against digital, I have some great sounding digital stuff, Lyn Stanleys double LP for example.
The recent Bob Dylan Bootleg series vol 10 - Another self portrait is another great sounding release which I assume is digital.

But for Jazz, the record, the vinyl, is competing against Blue Note originals and reissues among other stuff - Verve, Impulse, etc.
So the vinyl has to be up to standard for me to buy.
I would guess a lot of other people feel the same way.

Funding a new project has to be fraught with peril. Faith that it'll sell doesn't guarantee a success, though Kickstarter certainly guarantees a more assuring start. I can understand having to cut some costs. Reissuing is so much easier... just pick an existing analog-recorded album with mass appeal, search out the master tape, master, press and PR the heck out of it's AAA status.

While it is unfortunate that tape cost prevented capturing the entire project on analog tape, we must remember that they were not just playing a fixed number of songs a minimum number of times with minimal tape use. They likely played each track as many times and as long as they needed to to get it right... that's a lot of tape and where the tape cost comes in...

I wanted to publicly thank Jerome for the two sample files in 44.1/24 resolution. They sounded great on my rig, enough so that I plunked down my $20 at his Kickstarter to get the vinyl. To me, the sample songs were straight ahead jazz while at the same time having some sensibilities or flavor of rock music. I look forward to hearing more of the new album.

I am glad you liked them. Thanks for your backing!

After consulting with The Mastering Lab, where the LP will be cut, they strongly recommend that I spread the album over 4 sides instead of 3 sides, as I had planned initially.

We looked at the album in detail. Even though it's not that long (56:10 minutes), because of the sequence and the durations of songs on the record, trying to fit it on 3 sides would compromise the sound quality. I've decided to take their advice to get the best result possible sonically.

I know it's one more flip of the record and I had hoped to avoid it but I think it makes sense to aim for the best result possible and I trust their expert opinion.

It will cost a bit more but, because of the success of the Kickstarter, I can afford it. Of course, I will not pass any of this cost to backers.

Thanks for your interest!

Jerome Sabbagh

After hearing the 3 files at Bandcamp I took the Kickstarter LP plunge. I'm particularly gratified that the vinyl will "only" be 150gm because like you, I don't believe 180gm vinyl is automagically worth the effort. I mean yeah, all things considered it's nicer but if I had a dollar for every "audiophile" 180gm disk I owned cut from subpar sources and produced with lackluster production values, let's just say there continues to be a lot of misplaced cachet with 180gm.

As an aside, since I'm still whining, Bandcamp still doesn't list on the main album page WHAT formats or resolutions are offered for sale. You have to hand over your money before the choices are revealed.

I asked them about this about 2 years ago and they responded that they'll offer whatever the artist makes available ... which doesn't really answer the question. Maybe that means the 24/192 version will be offered there, but Bandcamp has never struck me as a particularly audiophile outlet, but it could be. Seems like money being left on the table there for HDTrakcs to pick up.

Lastly, the label's page doesn't hint at the Kickstarter's LP offer. I understand they may not want to advertise a product they might not be able to sell, since the LPs numbers will be small and so on, but as a representative or partner for the artist it seems an oversight.

Thanks for your backing!

I will enquire about Bandcamp offering the 192/24. I know Sunnyside (the record label) has submitted the 192/24 to HD Tracks a while ago and it's supposed to be on there relatively soon. Apparently it's a bit of a slow process but I am following up on it.

Jerome